The Further Up, Further In Podcast
The Further Up, Further In Podcast exists to call the American Church out of the shallows, and into the deeper waters of the faith, and to invite each listener to pursue a deeper walk with Christ.
Episodes

2 hours ago
2 hours ago
36 min
In our October Round Table, Jason Van Bemmel joins me to discuss these cultural forces, as we wrestle with our tendency to do what is convenient, how we rationalize our pursuit of self, and some of the steps we can take to counteract these cultural tides within us.

Oct 18, 2026
Oct 18, 2026
27 min
In our 4th and final part of this conversation, I talk about both postmodern relativism, specifically the impact that its skepticism about knowing & knowledge can have on us, as well as moralistic therapeutic deism, a descriptive term coined just over 20 years ago that captures several other things in the water of our culture.

Oct 11, 2026
Oct 11, 2026
32 min
In part 3 of our discussion of cultural forces, we talk about Consumerism, maybe the most pervasive and powerful of all of these, and we both reflect on some critiques of consumerism as well as talk about some biblical principles that might help us navigate it.

Oct 4, 2026
Oct 4, 2026
31 min
We continue our discussion of cultural forces this week by talking about pragmatism, and we also briefly introduce our next topic, consumerism, by taking a little time to distinguish consumerism from materialism.

Sep 27, 2026
Sep 27, 2026
29 min
We begin a 4 week excursion, talking about some of the ideas that are 'in the water' of our culture and often act upon us and shape us, often without our really thinking about it. We overview this excursion, explain why we're doing it, and begin by talking about hedonism in this episode.

Sep 20, 2026
Sep 20, 2026
42 min
In my final episode with Shane, we talk about his life since the album, at how he and his wife chose to adopt their boys and invest in helping at risk kids in their attempt to be faithful to God's calling on their lives - and we hear another of Shane's songs, "Chosen."

Sep 13, 2026
Sep 13, 2026
32 min
I continue my talk with Shane Lankford and in this episode, focus on the inspiration for and creation of the album, Orphan Found, looking specifically at the song "Paupers Unfulfilled," which you can hear in its entirety at the end of the episode.

Sep 6, 2026
Sep 6, 2026
39 min
My childhood best friend, whose voice you hear at the start of every episode, joins me to talk about the music on this podcast & more, as we talk about how being rooted in the church helped us through tough times and his desire to be faithful to his calling.

Aug 30, 2026
Aug 30, 2026
45 min
Jason and I follow-up on the episodes with J. Mark Bertrand about wisdom and discuss the biblical books that are classified as wisdom literature and some of the lessons they can teach us as we seek to grow in this vital area of the Christian life.

Aug 23, 2026
Aug 23, 2026
36 min
In this final installment of my conversation with Mark Bertrand about wisdom and the importance of pursuing wisdom we talk about his call to and work in pastoral ministry and seek to connect pursuing wisdom to pursuing depth in the Christian life.





