The Further Up, Further In Podcast

The Further Up, Further In Podcast exists to call the American Church out of the shallows, and into the deeper waters of the faith, and to invite each listener to pursue a deeper walk with Christ.

Episodes

Jun 14, 2026

1 hr 4 min

We continue our discussion of faith and science, and we move into a general discussion of views of origins, knowing this is much debated ground in the church, hoping to model a reasoned and respectful reflection on some of the issues in these conversations.

Jun 14, 2026

1 hr 4 min

Jun 7, 2026

49 min

In this interview we begin by reflecting on our shared history growing up at the same church, discussing our experience being rooted in that community of faith, and then move into a discussion of faith and science which continues into the next episode.

Jun 7, 2026

49 min

May 31, 2026

43 min

In this episode Jason Van Bemmel and I follow up on the conversation about devotional poetry and its value that I had with Leland Ryken, discussing poetry in general and looking more closely at another Holy Sonnet by John Donne and a poem by Emily Dickinson. 

May 31, 2026

43 min

May 24, 2026

35 min

This episode includes the second half of my conversation with Dr. Leland Ryken on devotional poetry as we look more closely at two sample poems, John Donne's Holy Sonnet 14 and John Milton's Sonnet 19, also known as Milton's sonnet on his blindness.

May 24, 2026

35 min

May 17, 2026

31 min

This episode contains the first half of my conversation with Dr. Leland Ryken on devotional poetry, as we talk about how poetry does its work, and why it is worth taking time to invest in it.

May 17, 2026

31 min

May 10, 2026

37 min

This episode concludes my conversation with Dr. Leland Ryken about his role on the ESV and Tyndale's New Testament, focusing mainly on the story of Tyndale's NT and the enormous impact it had on the English Bible.

May 10, 2026

37 min

May 3, 2026

35 min

This episode contains the first half of my conversation with Dr. Leland Ryken on the ESV and Tyndale's New Testament, focusing here on his work on the ESV as literary stylist and focusing in on things like the importance of getting as close in translation to what the original authors wrote as possible. 

May 3, 2026

35 min

Apr 26, 2026

45 min

This episode concludes the conversation I was having in the last episode with Max Benfer and Jason Van Bemmel, by moving to both the need for depth in the church and to discussing how we can pursue that depth.

Apr 26, 2026

45 min

Apr 19, 2026

37 min

In this episode, I welcome in two of my pastor friends, Max Benfer and Jason Van Bemmel, and we discuss one of the central assertions of this podcast, that the American Church is shallow.

Apr 19, 2026

37 min

Apr 12, 2026

28 min

Episode 36 looks back and reflects on the jouney of the podcast so far, pauses to reflect on John Donne's Holy Sonnet 14, and looks forward at the plans for the podcast moving forward.

Apr 12, 2026

28 min

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